Why the Stupid 4 Celebrate Kwanzaa

[Andre Jute]

>
Happy Kwanzaa! The Holiday Brought to You by the FBI:
>
https://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2023/12/27/happy-kwanzaa-the-holiday-brought-to-you-by-the-fbi-n2632896
>
Andre Jute
"I will not be shooting any Black Panthers this week because I am Kwanzaa-reform, and we are not that observant." -- Ann Coulter
>

[Tom Kunich]

Isn't this where Liebermann tells us that it wasn't like that at all, proiving his point by producing articles from the same people that wouold kill him withough a qualm simply for being white?

And whatever name Flunky is going under this week calls you names for knowing something while he knows less than nothing?

And Frank pretends to know something because he doesn't wear helmets?

[Catrike Ryder]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 07:50:06 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, but he used to wear a helmet.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Is the above Black Panther quote by Ron Karenga or Ann Coulter?

Interesting topic for a cycling technology newsgroup. In 1967-68, I
attended what was then San Fernando Valley State College (now known as
Calif State University, Northridge). Ron Karenga (as he was known at
the time) was a regular speaker on campus and very popular with those
who wanted to attend a riot. Although I was not a member of the BSU
(Black Students Union) a high school friend, was some kind of official
in the BSU, lived in the dorms and managed one floor which was
reserved for BSU members.

It's odd that you should mention the Black Panthers. Ron Karenga
started as a member of the Black Panthers, but was involved in some
kind of fight or battle with them in 1969. I was gone by then, so I
don't know the details.

I heard Ron Karenga speak once and was able to ask him one question.
In other words, I really didn't know what he was really like. He was
a tolerable public speaker but seemed to prefer confrontation as a
substitute for negotiation. It was fairly obvious that the reason
most students attended his speeches was because they knew that there
would eventually be violence. I only saw this once, which turned into
a brief free-for-all in a nearby parking lot.

If the FBI was involved in funding Kwanzaa, I have no knowledge for or
against. At the time, none of the "protest" organizations got along
with campus security or the LAPD. I don't know about the FBI, but I
suspect not. I was not on campus on Nov 4, 1968 to see the student
"revolt" because I had transfered to a different college in Sept 1968.

I found this "fact sheet". It helped fill in some gaps in my memory:
<http://www.csun.edu/~rg084539/PDF/SANKOFA%20FACT%20SHEET.pdf>



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 07:50:06 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Isn't this where Liebermann tells us that it wasn't like
>that at all,

It wasn't like what?

>proiving his point by producing articles from the same people
>that wouold kill him withough a qualm simply for being white?

Kill me? It's possible, but unlikely. At the time, I was hanging
around with two friends from High School. One was black, one Chinese
and I was the token white. Behind our backs, were "Honkey, Chink and
Spade". I may not have been a major advocate of racial equality, but
hanging around a mix of races gave me some useful instruction on how
to avoid trouble.

I've noticed that you often threaten people with death or injury in
RBT. When you mention me, you usually declare that I might soon be
dead. (I can provide you the relevant RBT quotes to assist your
memory). If I try hard, I'm fairly sure I can find your poorly
disguised threats against everyone in RBT with whom you've had a
disagreement. Here's a free sample:
09/17/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/KvIpVSj1RiQ/m/kkdSlEftBQAJ>
"I would love to meet Seaton. It would require about 20 seconds to
break the jaw and leave him crying like the baby he is.

When someone lies repeatedly, they don't invent stories, events or
situations out of thin air. The contrived stories are usually based
on personal experiences. Most commonly, it's whatever they were
thinking about prior to writing. If that's true, when you write about
my impending death, it's because you were previously thinking or
worrying about your own impending death. Nothing wrong there. We're
both card carrying senior citizens and rapidly approaching the average
life span of 79.11 years (2023).
<https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy>

Perhaps you're waiting for the last possible minute to confess your
sins on the assumption that God will forgive you for the actions of a
lifetime? You could try to confess your sins on your deathbed, but I
don't think your request will be granted. Something about sincerity.
If you really want final absolution, try the beer:
<https://www.dragonmead.com/items/final-absolution>

[Zen Cycle]

Interesting tangent: in 1967 Ronnie Ray-gun passed the Mulford Act, a
state law prohibiting the open carry of loaded firearms. It was 'aimed'
specifically at the black panthers who started showing up to protests
with loaded weapons. Ray-gun went so far as to say during the signing
that he saw no reason why people should be carrying loaded weapons on
the street. Funny how pro gun everyone is until they see a group of
armed black men.....

You can read more about it here:
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act


This ought to tweak tommy's little cockles.

--
Add xx to reply

[Andre Jute]

I wonder if that dim bimbo, Horselaugh Kamala, who claims to have celebrated the "African Christmas of Kwanzaa" since she was a hectoring child, knows that by this lie she makes herself an FBI stooge. -- AJ
>

[AMuzi]

Not the only example in a fraught era:

https://www.alibris.com/Negroes-With-Guns-Hardcover-Robert-F-Williams/book/52172153?qsort=p&matches=4

https://www.alibris.com/Radio-Free-Dixie-Robert-F-Williams-and-the-Roots-of-Black-Power-Timothy-B-Tyson/book/5522006?qsort=p&matches=25


--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 16:30:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Interesting tangent: in 1967 Ronnie Ray-gun passed the Mulford Act, a
>state law prohibiting the open carry of loaded firearms. It was 'aimed'
>specifically at the black panthers who started showing up to protests
>with loaded weapons. Ray-gun went so far as to say during the signing
>that he saw no reason why people should be carrying loaded weapons on
>the street. Funny how pro gun everyone is until they see a group of
>armed black men.....
>
>You can read more about it here:
>https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

Yep. However, that wasn't what the press was saying at the time. The
difference was that the voters of the state of California were very
much on Governor Reagan's (D) side. In 1967, the most important items
in the news was the war in Vietnam and the associated protests. The
public was very much on the side of "winning" the war and were getting
sick and tired of the protests, riots and general unrest centered
around the California state colleges. Note that all this was well
before May, 1970 when the US expanded the war by invading Cambodia and
Kent State shootings which very much ended the protests:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_campaign>
In 1967, all the public wanted was a large helping of law and order.
This showed in public opinion polls and in the press. In 1967-68, I
was at San Fernando Valley State in the school of engineering. I
vaguely recall there were about 1,500 engineering students in 1967.
This isn't much help with the numbers:
<https://library.csun.edu/50/RapidGrowth.html>

At the time, I was the only engineering student who was even
marginally active in Vietnam war protests. When there was an anti-war
protest, nobody noticed. Instead, we had demonstrations for "support
the troops" and demonstrations of "loyalty". There may have been
more, but I only recall about 5 black engineering students. When I
transferred to Cal Poly Pomona, it was much the same, with only 5
black engineering students, all of them exchange students from various
African countries. Different world, different times, different fears
and different priorities. By 1975, attitudes and priorities had
changed 180 degrees as reflected by the election of Jerry Brown (D) as
governor.

I could go on and on with this topic, but I need to stop. I go for
cataract surgery on Weds (Jan 3). Until then, I can somewhat read the
screen with a large magnifying glass. However, hold the magnifier
while I'm writing is becoming tedious. I'll be in read-only mode for
a while.

>This ought to tweak tommy's little cockles.

What's a cockle?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockle_(bivalve)>
That makes no sense. Digging deeper:
<https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/what-are-the-cockles-of-your-heart-and-why-do-they-need-warming-20050212-gdkogx.html>
OK. Got it. However, Tom has no heart and therefore, no cockles.

[Zen Cycle]

On 12/29/2023 1:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 16:30:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Interesting tangent: in 1967 Ronnie Ray-gun passed the Mulford Act, a
>> state law prohibiting the open carry of loaded firearms. It was 'aimed'
>> specifically at the black panthers who started showing up to protests
>> with loaded weapons. Ray-gun went so far as to say during the signing
>> that he saw no reason why people should be carrying loaded weapons on
>> the street. Funny how pro gun everyone is until they see a group of
>> armed black men.....
>>
>> You can read more about it here:
>> https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
>
> Yep. However, that wasn't what the press was saying at the time. The
> difference was that the voters of the state of California were very
> much on Governor Reagan's (D) side.

According to my reading, ronnie switched affiliation from D to R well
before he became governor of CA.

<large snip>

>
>> This ought to tweak tommy's little cockles.
>
> What's a cockle?
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockle_(bivalve)>
> That makes no sense. Digging deeper:
> <https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/what-are-the-cockles-of-your-heart-and-why-do-they-need-warming-20050212-gdkogx.html>
> OK. Got it. However, Tom has no heart and therefore, no cockles.

Are you sure? he does claim to be the best Christian in this forum, even
better than Betty Bowers!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrsbettybowers

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 08:22:12 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>

wrote:

>On 12/29/2023 1:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 16:30:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Interesting tangent: in 1967 Ronnie Ray-gun passed the Mulford Act, a
>>> state law prohibiting the open carry of loaded firearms. It was 'aimed'
>>> specifically at the black panthers who started showing up to protests
>>> with loaded weapons. Ray-gun went so far as to say during the signing
>>> that he saw no reason why people should be carrying loaded weapons on
>>> the street. Funny how pro gun everyone is until they see a group of
>>> armed black men.....
>>>
>>> You can read more about it here:
>>> https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
>>
>> Yep. However, that wasn't what the press was saying at the time. The
>> difference was that the voters of the state of California were very
>> much on Governor Reagan's (D) side.
>
>According to my reading, ronnie switched affiliation from D to R well
>before he became governor of CA.

Sorry, my mistake. Governor Reagan should have been (R). I don't
know how I could have screwed up so badly.

>Are you sure? he does claim to be the best Christian in this forum, even
>better than Betty Bowers!
>
>https://www.youtube.com/user/mrsbettybowers

Thanks. I hadn't heard of her.
I like her conversation with Donald Trump:
"Trumping Trump"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul5vL1xDQeA>
Is she going to run for president?

Tom once claimed that his maternal grandmother was Jewish.

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 14:23:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

If Tom's grandmother was Jewish then his mother was Jewish and of
course he is Jewish, :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 07:07:45 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I might be wrong about that. I can't seem to find the relevant
posting in RBT. Google Groups search seems be having indexing
problems tonight.

>If Tom's grandmother was Jewish then his mother was Jewish and of
>course he is Jewish, :-)

Nope. He needs 3 out of 4 grandparents to be considered Jewish. See
the Mischling Test:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling_Test#The_test>
"A person with only one Jewish grandparent is considered to be a
Mischling of the second degree"

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:03:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

Actually I was basing my calculations on a friend who's father was
Jewish but his mother was "Sicilian", i.e., non Jewish, and described
himself as a "Cultural Jew".

I assumed, wrongly, that it worked that way with any ancestor.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Ms Coulter also writes, either in the cited article or in another recently, that the Black Panthers were not anti-white racists in the manner of the more recent BLM. -- AJ
>

[Andre Jute]

My eye, in passing down the page to find an article by a reliable poster, fell on Liebermann's distasteful acceptance without question of a NAZI "measure" of Jewishness. Though I know the correct answer, I looked it up, as Liebermann could have done. Here is a definitive version from The Times of Israel of 4 January 2019:
"The Law of Return grants near-automatic citizenship to those with at least one Jewish grandparent, but the Chief Rabbinate only recognizes them as Jews if they conform to the standards of halacha, or Jewish law. That means they must have a Jewish mother or have been converted to Judaism under Orthodox authorities approved by the Chief Rabbinate."
Furthermore, the article, here:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-most-new-immigrants-to-israel-arent-considered-jewish/
makes it quite clear that the definition of the rabbinate of who is or can be Jewish is open to discussion and adjustment.
>
Andre Jute
Disgusted with Liebermann's flick-off method of doing "research". Even Slow Johnny, once he realised his error (not grasping that Jewishness results from a matriarchy), has a better understanding.
>

[Tom Kunich]

On the smartest day of his life, Liebermann is a complete fool. Like everything else in his life he invents anything he doesn't know about and that is everything. What I said was that my Grandparents were Austriahn Jews that came to America because even before Hitler, Jews were hated by the German and Austrian people. My grandmother and my mother and my Uncle Harry were practicing Jews and in order to marry my father my mother had to convert to Catholicism and take classes She prefered Christianity to Jewdaism and never looked back. After coming of age my Unclke Harry never again practiced religion of any kind. There is absolutely nothing Liebermann cannot manage to be offensive about which was probably a reason that he couldn't even obtain and retain a position as simple minded as Flunky's.

[John B.]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:35:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 10:49:10?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

>> > <r>

>> > "A person with only one Jewish grandparent is considered to be a
>> > Mischling of the second degree"
>> > --
>> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>> >
>> My eye, in passing down the page to find an article by a reliable poster, fell on Liebermann's distasteful acceptance without question of a NAZI "measure" of Jewishness. Though I know the correct answer, I looked it up, as Liebermann could have done. Here is a definitive version from The Times of Israel of 4 January 2019:
>> "The Law of Return grants near-automatic citizenship to those with at least one Jewish grandparent, but the Chief Rabbinate only recognizes them as Jews if they conform to the standards of halacha, or Jewish law. That means they must have a Jewish mother or have been converted to Judaism under Orthodox authorities approved by the Chief Rabbinate."
>> Furthermore, the article, here:
>> https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-most-new-immigrants-to-israel-arent-considered-jewish/
>> makes it quite clear that the definition of the rabbinate of who is or can be Jewish is open to discussion and adjustment.
>> >
>> Andre Jute
>> Disgusted with Liebermann's flick-off method of doing "research". Even Slow Johnny, once he realised his error (not grasping that Jewishness results from a matriarchy), has a better understanding.
>> >
>
>On the smartest day of his life, Liebermann is a complete fool. Like everything else in his life he invents anything he doesn't know about and that is everything. What I said was that my Grandparents were Austriahn Jews that came to America because even before Hitler, Jews were hated by the German and Austrian people. My grandmother and my mother and my Uncle Harry were practicing Jews and in order to marry my father my mother had to convert to Catholicism and take classes She prefered Christianity to Jewdaism and never looked back. After coming of age my Unclke Harry never again practiced religion of any kind. There is absolutely nothing Liebermann cannot manage to be offensive about which was probably a reason that he couldn't even obtain and retain a position as simple minded as Flunky's.

How strange, perhaps because Tommy lives in California (the land of
the fruits and the nuts).

I comment as my father's youngest sister married a Catholic chap and
there was no requirement to change her religion - however she was not
allowed to be married in the church itself - the building - and her
(legal) marriage was performed, by a Priest, in the rectory.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:35:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On the smartest day of his life, Liebermann is a complete fool.

Tom. Thank you for the opening insult.

>Like everything else in his life he invents anything he doesn't
>know about and that is everything.

You're overdoing the projection. It's you who invents everything and
always lies, not me. Try not to take yourself too seriously.

>What I said was that my Grandparents were Austriahn Jews that
>came to America because even before Hitler, Jews were hated by
>the German and Austrian people. My grandmother and my mother
>and my Uncle Harry were practicing Jews and in order to marry
>my father my mother had to convert to Catholicism and take
>classes She prefered Christianity to Jewdaism and never looked
>back. After coming of age my Unclke Harry never again practiced
>religion of any kind.

I was unable to find anything like that.
What you actually wrote was:

(04/14/2021)
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ojAiGP7czrU/m/-TTHMXQQAgAJ>
"My grandfather was an Austrian Jew and by the age of 5 I spoke more
Yiddish than I did English."

I expanded on that when you went a little overboard with the term
"Jew".
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ojAiGP7czrU/m/RZy8XkJIAgAJ>
"How does having a Jewish grandfather entitle you to use the name of
his religion as a derogatory term? At the very least, you owe him an
apology for not turning out the way he might have expected."

Notice that there's no mention of Tom's grandmother being Jewish,
which doesn't quite agree with Tom's latest description of his
ancestry. In any case, Jewish lineage is through the mothers, not the
fathers. If true, Tom is certainly not Jewish, which is a great
relief.

>There is absolutely nothing Liebermann cannot manage to be
>offensive about which was probably a reason that he couldn't
>even obtain and retain a position as simple minded as Flunky's.

I decode that to mean that you find me offensive. That's correct
because I prefer a good offense over your bad defense. In case you
haven't noticed, most of my comments are to correct your mistakes
preferably in a diplomatic and respectful manner. I've never called
you any name other than "Tom". I've never referred to you in
diminutive terms. I've never used profanity. All I do is expose your
lies and demonstrate your ineptitude.

As for positions, for the last 30 years, my title was "Owner". When I
was a practicing RF engineer, my title varied. I was "Junior
Engineer" which was the personnel department's idea based upon my
small salary from the WEMA (Western Electronics Manufacturers
Association) scale. "Keeper of the Faith", was my idea, which didn't
last very long when management found out. "Member of the Technical
Staff" was the chief engineers idea. I registered my protest with the
immolation of 500 business cards in the parking lot. They didn't burn
very well so I had to use a propane torch. My last title was "RF
Engineer" when I was a consultant. I thought long an hard about a
suitable title. Everyone else was calling themselves "Senior RF
Designer" or something equally ostentation. I suspected that the
decision makers were getting tired of that, so I contrived something
mundane. That worked well until I began running into companies that
had never heard of the term "RF". The new term was "Wireless
Engineer". So I printed some more cards. By this time, I had a laser
printer and business card stock was commonly available, so I printed
business cards (and titles) for the occasion. I suspect I could find
some of these cards and make a patchwork pillow.

[John B.]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:49:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Funny, for the last 20 years or so I worked for the company I don't
think I had a title. I was just the guy that when they had a problem
the boss would say something like, "Ask John" :-) Or if a client had
a problem he'd say something like,"I'll send John over and you tell
him the problem. He'll sort it out for you".

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

My Japanese cards use the characters mu zei which read 'no
tax'. Nice icebreaker.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 13:18:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:49:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:

>>As for positions, for the last 30 years, my title was "Owner". When I
>>was a practicing RF engineer, my title varied. I was "Junior
>>Engineer" which was the personnel department's idea based upon my
>>small salary from the WEMA (Western Electronics Manufacturers
>>Association) scale. "Keeper of the Faith", was my idea, which didn't
>>last very long when management found out. "Member of the Technical
>>Staff" was the chief engineers idea. I registered my protest with the
>>immolation of 500 business cards in the parking lot. They didn't burn
>>very well so I had to use a propane torch. My last title was "RF
>>Engineer" when I was a consultant. I thought long an hard about a
>>suitable title. Everyone else was calling themselves "Senior RF
>>Designer" or something equally ostentation. I suspected that the
>>decision makers were getting tired of that, so I contrived something
>>mundane. That worked well until I began running into companies that
>>had never heard of the term "RF". The new term was "Wireless
>>Engineer". So I printed some more cards. By this time, I had a laser
>>printer and business card stock was commonly available, so I printed
>>business cards (and titles) for the occasion. I suspect I could find
>>some of these cards and make a patchwork pillow.
>
>Funny, for the last 20 years or so I worked for the company I don't
>think I had a title. I was just the guy that when they had a problem
>the boss would say something like, "Ask John" :-) Or if a client had
>a problem he'd say something like,"I'll send John over and you tell
>him the problem. He'll sort it out for you".

Well, things have been rather different for me. All of the
manufacturing companies that I worked for had Japanese clients,
customers, vendors, suppliers and middle men. That was the norm for
the 1970's. Part of doing business with them is what might be called
the Japanese business card ceremony where having a suitable title and
a proper business card were essential:
<https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2227.html>
At the time, violating any of the rules listed was very idea,
especially if I was representing an American company trying to do
business in Japan. I can provide some horror stories (and comedies)
but realize that things probably have changed since the 1970's.

Also, during the 1970's, trade shows were the norm. In the marine
radio business, I was expected to attend and staff the company booth
at the annual Marine Electronics Show etc. I also attended the Wescon
and Nepcon shows where component and services vendors displayed their
wares. For every show, I collected a fairly large number of business
cards for later abuse. The shows were replaced by online advertising
in about the mid 1990's. The vendors expected to discuss purchases
with "decision makers" while the potential customers (and
distributors) wanted to meet with "someone high up" in the company. A
mundane title didn't work, so we all had custom name badges and
business cards for the shows. I think I was a "Marine Communications
Specialist" or something similar.

Today, I use business cards for setting the magneto air gap on and
other small engines. The thickness (0.012 in) is perfect and it's far
more flexible than a steel feeler gauge.

There is one danger involving business cards. When I was getting
started in the computer repair business, I would leave a few cards at
several local coffee shops in the hope the owners would give my card
to potential customers. That worked fairly well, became a big problem
when someone used my business card to impersonate me. He appeared
with the card at one of my customers, a medical billing company,
claimed to be me or that I sent him, and tried to steal a computer. He
would have succeeded except the newly hired Vietnamese receptionist
became suspicious and called someone who knew me. Apparently, that
scam was popular in Vietnam.

[Tom Kunich]

Have you got that? Liebermann is unable to find something I said repeatedly. He is also pretty slow since he finds that he cannot bother to look up the word "offensiuve"..

As for mu zei, since most of the Japanese in the USA are in California it might do Gavine Loathsome well to learn that translation.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Tom? Do you have a short term memory or retention problem? I can't
think of any other malady that would cause you to forget that I've
mentioned at least three times in RBT that I'm awaiting eye surgery
(in 3 days) for cataracts and that I'm having some difficulty reading.
I find reading a page of text is difficult but possible with a
magnifying glass. Searching for your comments through multiple pages
is almost impossible. If I had a better search word, if Google Groups
had a threaded article feature, if the search engine had retained some
of the features that Google has removed, and if it allowed for regex
keyword search patterns, I might be able to find your comments within
a reasonable time. Meanwhile, could I trouble you to use Google
Groups search to find your own postings involving your Jewish
relatives?

>He is also pretty slow since he finds that he cannot bother to
>look up the word "offensiuve"..

I'll look it up when you learn how to operate a spelling checker.

>As for mu zei, since most of the Japanese in the USA are in
>California it might do Gavine Loathsome well to learn that translation.

At least you're true to form. None of your postings would be complete
without an introductory insult and a political ending. All that's
missing are the usual wrong numbers, amazing facts, intentionally
wrong quotes, changes of topic, etc...

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/31/2023 4:52 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Have you got that? Liebermann is unable to find something I said repeatedly. He is also pretty slow since he finds that he cannot bother to look up the word "offensiuve"..

I just looked it up and found nothing.

I wonder if Tom's started his New Year's Eve drinking early. He's posted
far more than his usual amount of misspellings and tangled sentences.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, December 30, 2023 at 7:35:40 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
> in order to marry my father my mother had to convert to Catholicism and take classes She prefered Christianity to Jewdaism and never looked back.

"Jewdaism?"

> There is absolutely nothing Liebermann cannot manage to be offensive about

lol...the irony of that coming from tommy........

> which was probably a reason that he couldn't even obtain and retain a position as simple minded as Flunky's.

You really couldn't handle my job. It requires that you understand how to deal with regulatory agency certification engineers diplomatically and present information and rationale based on factual evidence. You've proven yourself incapable of either.

[AMuzi]

> Have you got that? Liebermann is unable to find something I said repeatedly. He is also pretty slow since he finds that he cannot bother to look up the word "offensiuve"..
>
> As for mu zei, since most of the Japanese in the USA are in California it might do Gavine Loathsome well to learn that translation.

Mr Newsome can make his own wordplay in his own style.

[AMuzi]

Sadly Judy Tenuta is dead now:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Judyism-Judy-Tenuta/dp/006096510X

She was colorful and entertaining but Judyism is ended.

[Tom Kunich]

I am unaware of who Jiudy Tenuta is, but perhaps you can enlighten me?

As for Flunky's comments. He is proibably right. I seldon had to deat with regulatory agencies and when I did I didn't like it. But that is not engineering xo please do not imply in any way that it is.

[AMuzi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8YTXQgYaX8

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Which is proof that you never designed medical instruments. If you had, you would have been intimately involved with ensuring the design complied with regulatory requirements.

> But that is not engineering xo please do not imply in any way that it is.

Regulatory design criteria dictates design constraints. Everything from component selection to PC layout to software coding standards (which include in some cases specifes coding structure (https://devops.com/functional-safety-in-embedded-design-starts-with-code-development/)).

I'm more involved in the engineering design of my companies product line on a daily basis than you ever were for the sum total of you miserable worthless "career".

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 1 Jan 2024 07:38:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I seldon had to deat with regulatory agencies and when I did I didn't like it. But that is not engineering xo please do not imply in any way that it is.

Government agencies don't care what you do or do not like. Same with
paying employers and clients who allegedly rely on your ability to
deliver a product with all the necessary certifications and paperwork.
If your medical device can't legally be sold, your mythical $250,000
would likely be at risk.

Regulatory compliance and certifications are major parts of
engineering. At some point, you should have designed something based
on a long list of very specific specifications which industry
standards, international standards, trade association standards,
safety standards, etc. After you're done with your design, should
have had to test your device to insure that it complies with ALL
applicable standards. That's called pre-compliance testing. You
really want to do that because the next step is compliance testing by
an independent test lab. If you device fails and you are able to do
the necessary damage control, you get to do all over again. Repetitive
failures can become very expensive. If you want details, Joerg, who
used to design and test medical equipment and who occasionally drops
in to RBT, might provide you with some clues as to how it's done
today.

"Ultimate List of ISO Standards for Medical Devices"
<https://www.greenlight.guru/blog/iso-standards>

You might find some of these standards on bicycle product literature:
<https://www.cpsc.gov/content/bicycle-requirements-business-guidance>
<https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-C/part-1512>
Of course, you test all the bicycles that you sell on eBay to insure
that your modifications haven't changed any of these requirements.

For your entertainment, most of the marine radio I helped design took
about 9 months from the day the specs arrived on my desk to when I
product was released to manufacturing. I was allowed only 2 to 3
weeks to complete the design. Everything else was based on the design
and had to start as quickly as possible. Serial development will
never meet any deadlines.

Tom, you mentioned "I seldom had to deat[sic] with regulatory
agencies". That's a lie. You probably NEVER dealt directly with a
regulatory agency. If you had, then there must have been something
seriously wrong with the product, documentation or procedures. The
few times I've had to "deal" with a regulatory agency, it was by the
request of the company chief engineer. He did the actual negotiations
and I just provided the technical assistance.

Happy New Year.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 3:17:43 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jan 2024 07:38:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I seldon had to deat with regulatory agencies and when I did I didn't like it. But that is not engineering xo please do not imply in any way that it is.
> Government agencies don't care what you do or do not like. Same with
> paying employers and clients who allegedly rely on your ability to
> deliver a product with all the necessary certifications and paperwork.
> If your medical device can't legally be sold, your mythical $250,000
> would likely be at risk.
>
> Regulatory compliance and certifications are major parts of
> engineering. At some point, you should have designed something based
> on a long list of very specific specifications which industry
> standards, international standards, trade association standards,
> safety standards, etc. After you're done with your design, should
> have had to test your device to insure that it complies with ALL
> applicable standards. That's called pre-compliance testing. You
> really want to do that because the next step is compliance testing by
> an independent test lab. If you device fails and you are able to do
> the necessary damage control, you get to do all over again. Repetitive
> failures can become very expensive. If you want details, Joerg, who
> used to design and test medical equipment and who occasionally drops
> in to RBT, might provide you with some clues as to how it's done
> today.

Considering it's what I do for a living, I can give excruciating details of regulatory design requirements, for example:

https://www.iecex.com/dmsdocument/1589
"4 Capacitive Evaluations
4.1 Overview
The ignition capabilities of all capacitive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
60079.11. Group II resistor protected capacitors cannot be assessed from the reference curves."

"Piezo electric devices
The voltage generated by an impact on a piezo electric crystal needs to be considered in the ExTR
and compared again the acceptable energy level for the group."

"5 Inductive Assessment
5.1 Overview
The ignition capabilities of all inductive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
60079.11."

You should see the new testing requirements for opto-isolators in the latest edition of 60079-11. They went from one paragraph to three pages of assessment. The last quote we got to assess to the new standard showed a $5000 price increase - solely- to the additional testing required. The alternative is to specify pre-approved devices, which would require a rather substantial design change to the existing circuit. It would save us a month or two of testing and that $5K, but the cost of the devices is an order of magnitude higher - I'm leaving that decision up to the business management.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 04:54:16 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Considering it's what I do for a living, I can give excruciating details of regulatory design requirements, for example:
>
>https://www.iecex.com/dmsdocument/1589
>"4 Capacitive Evaluations
>4.1 Overview
>The ignition capabilities of all capacitive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
>60079.11. Group II resistor protected capacitors cannot be assessed from the reference curves."
>
>"Piezo electric devices
>The voltage generated by an impact on a piezo electric crystal needs to be considered in the ExTR
>and compared again the acceptable energy level for the group."
>
>"5 Inductive Assessment
>5.1 Overview
>The ignition capabilities of all inductive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
>60079.11."

Intrinsically safe in explosive atmospheres. I'm glad I don't have
your job although I think it might be fun to run some tests. Almost
as much fun as me learning how to use explosive forming to make
parabolic dish antennas.

>You should see the new testing requirements for opto-isolators
>in the latest edition of 60079-11.

I'm afraid to look. Is vacuum potting the opto-isolator in epoxy
acceptable?

I'm seeing PCB's that no longer "air gap" an opto-isolator by milling
a groove in the PCB. Instead, they're using optical emitters and
receivers with a fiber optic cable in between. I'm not sure what spec
change inspired this change.

The real fun is the focused power density at the end of an optical
fiber with a few watts of IR behind it. I used one to destroy the
"protective" caps that cover the transceiver ports. It seems like the
perfect igniter for an explosive atmosphere and might work as a "laser
welder". There was quite a bit of activity in about 2015 trying to
conjure a fix. The choices were (1)reflect the light and destroy the
laser, (2)use a "protective" cap and watch it either explode or burn,
(3)let the light pass and turn it into a rack mounted death ray, or
(4)change the design somehow so that it's reasonably safe. I have no
idea what they did.

>They went from one paragraph to three pages of assessment. The last quote we got to assess to the new standard showed a $5000 price increase - solely- to the additional testing required. The alternative is to specify pre-approved devices, which would require a rather substantial design change to the existing circuit. It would save us a month or two of testing and that $5K, but the cost of the devices is an order of magnitude higher - I'm leaving that decision up to the business management.

Yep. Standards grow like weeds. In many ways, standards are a good
thing. Unfortunately, they don't expire. When I helped design the
AN/SRD-22 radio direction finder, one of the specs that the USCG (US
coast guard) required was that all power wiring comply with some
obscure spec that nobody could find. Filing an exception during the
bidding process was a guaranteed way of not winning the bid. So, we
played dumb and hoped for the best. We eventually discovered that it
was for "rope lay electrical cables" left over from building cruisers
and battleships during WW2. Nobody knows how it snuck into the specs
for a modern (at the time) direction finder.

[AMuzi]

Well, since standards are good we ought to make more of them!

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/2/2024 11:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 04:54:16 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Considering it's what I do for a living, I can give excruciating details of regulatory design requirements, for example:
>>
>> https://www.iecex.com/dmsdocument/1589
>> "4 Capacitive Evaluations
>> 4.1 Overview
>> The ignition capabilities of all capacitive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
>> 60079.11. Group II resistor protected capacitors cannot be assessed from the reference curves."
>>
>> "Piezo electric devices
>> The voltage generated by an impact on a piezo electric crystal needs to be considered in the ExTR
>> and compared again the acceptable energy level for the group."
>>
>> "5 Inductive Assessment
>> 5.1 Overview
>> The ignition capabilities of all inductive circuits under fault conditions must meet the requirements of IEC
>> 60079.11."
>
> Intrinsically safe in explosive atmospheres. I'm glad I don't have
> your job although I think it might be fun to run some tests. Almost
> as much fun as me learning how to use explosive forming to make
> parabolic dish antennas.

I have fun on a regular basis:

- we recently had to do battery testing of AA cells. This required
thermocouples at three points on the battery to measure temperature
increase of the cell discharging through a .5 ohm load. Most of them got
so hot that it detached the adhesive holding the thermocouples in place
and several spectacularly spewed dielectric inside the vent hood. Of 7
samples we tested only one met the HazLoc thermal limit requirements.

- Internal testing requirements for zener clamps in IS barriers:
increase current thought the device in situ until failure, sometimes we
get flames.

- Testing of plastic housing materials: Standards require a 30 day soak
at 20C over the operating temperature of the product at 90% RH, after
which the sample is transferred for a cold soak a 5C under the minimum
operating temperature for 24 hours. The sample is removed and
immediately impacted with a 1Kg steel ball from 70 cm height. Eye
protection is required.

- Long-term soaking of plastic materials in various hydrocarbon fuel
blends at elevated temperature followed by stress-to-failure physical
testing

- our Fuel-Depot gantry-mounted equipment is explosion-proof. Testing
requires measuring pressure from igniting an air-fuel mix inside the
enclosure. That pressure reading is then multiplied 4X and the enclosure
is tested hydro statically at that pressure. That generally translates
to ~ 500PSI depending on the enclosure size and the type of fuel. We
have holes in the ceiling tiles in the lab from heads of weakened M8 hex
cap bolts popping.

>
>> You should see the new testing requirements for opto-isolators
>> in the latest edition of 60079-11.
>
> I'm afraid to look. Is vacuum potting the opto-isolator in epoxy
> acceptable?

That's the old way of doing it, these days 'approved' opto-isolators are
simply hermetically sealed. One of our older products uses an older
style with epoxy sealing - Those are the ones we have to get tested to
the new standards, we have made the decision to redesign via a
'daughter' pca to carry newer, cheaper, more available parts.

>
> I'm seeing PCB's that no longer "air gap" an opto-isolator by milling
> a groove in the PCB. Instead, they're using optical emitters and
> receivers with a fiber optic cable in between. I'm not sure what spec
> change inspired this change.

I don't think that was a specification change. Fiber coupling ensures
less susceptibility to ambient noise at significantly reduced power, and
allows higher speed (smaller light/dark transient). However, I don't
think I've seen any discreet solutions like that in quite a while.
Everything used for data/signalling for the most part is monolithic
these days.

>
> The real fun is the focused power density at the end of an optical
> fiber with a few watts of IR behind it. I used one to destroy the
> "protective" caps that cover the transceiver ports. It seems like the
> perfect igniter for an explosive atmosphere and might work as a "laser
> welder". There was quite a bit of activity in about 2015 trying to
> conjure a fix. The choices were (1)reflect the light and destroy the
> laser, (2)use a "protective" cap and watch it either explode or burn,
> (3)let the light pass and turn it into a rack mounted death ray, or
> (4)change the design somehow so that it's reasonably safe. I have no
> idea what they did.

Lasers are a special case in HazLoc world. I only know since there are
specific chapters in the standards, but we don't have any laser
applications.

>
>> They went from one paragraph to three pages of assessment. The last quote we got to assess to the new standard showed a $5000 price increase - solely- to the additional testing required. The alternative is to specify pre-approved devices, which would require a rather substantial design change to the existing circuit. It would save us a month or two of testing and that $5K, but the cost of the devices is an order of magnitude higher - I'm leaving that decision up to the business management.
>
> Yep. Standards grow like weeds. In many ways, standards are a good
> thing. Unfortunately, they don't expire. When I helped design the
> AN/SRD-22 radio direction finder, one of the specs that the USCG (US
> coast guard) required was that all power wiring comply with some
> obscure spec that nobody could find. Filing an exception during the
> bidding process was a guaranteed way of not winning the bid. So, we
> played dumb and hoped for the best. We eventually discovered that it
> was for "rope lay electrical cables" left over from building cruisers
> and battleships during WW2. Nobody knows how it snuck into the specs
> for a modern (at the time) direction finder.

HazLoc hasn't been updated to exclude hi-pot testing for battery
operated equipment. The only out we've found is an 'end-run' one agency
gave us on one of our products because there were no isolation
transformers, but the standard doesn't specifically allow for that
exclusion. It was a judgment call from the reviewers - something they
have latitude to do. One reviewer looking over one of our accessory
components stated 'we really shouldn't have to do this, it makes no
sense'. It's basically something that got left over and someone has to
petition for a change.


>
>

--
Add xx to reply

[Tom Kunich]

Just so we're on the same page - Hazloc has to do with flammible or exposive substance - largely gasoline. Flunky wants to throw around terms that most people don't kinow about and infer with his usual bullshit that they have something to do with medical instruments like an ultrasound cancer detection and treatment device. Or a respiratory gas analyzer. Or a PCR virus multiplier.

This is the guy saying that he has designed and programmed digital circuit boards. How much lying can one man do?

[Zen Cycle]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 3:02:44 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Just so we're on the same page - Hazloc has to do with flammible or
exposive substance - largely gasoline.

Correct, as I very clearly stated here:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Lk2rFW-CXz0/m/ecVQZ2ioBAAJ

Except that Explosive Atmospheres isn't "largely" gasoline, it's any of
a number of dust and/or gas groups, of which gasoline falls under the
Ethylene group.

> Flunky wants to throw around terms that most people don't kinow about
> and infer with his usual bullshit that they have something to do with
> medical instruments like an ultrasound cancer detection and treatment
> device. Or a respiratory gas analyzer. Or a PCR virus multiplier.

At no point have I inferred, insinuated, suggested, or made any
connection between my products and medical products except that the
regulatory challenges are similar - which is why we know you were never
involved in the actual design of medical products or you would have been
aware of the challenges instead of saying "I seldom dealt with
regulatory issues".

> This is the guy saying that he has designed and programmed digital
> circuit boards. How much lying can one man do?

Sure sparky, because I'm developing electronic systems for use in
explosive atmospheres, this some how means I could never have designed
or programmed digital systems.

You haven't made any statement that indicates I've lied. In fact, every
time you've been challenged on a technical issue, rather than discuss
technical details that might support your claims of vast knowledge, you
instead resort to insults.

Post _any_ link that discusses how PWM is used to test cables as a
typical test method, and maybe we can discuss how much more you _don't_
know.

Until then, you're just an out-of-work engineering tech who had to get
married in order to get more social security, mr. "light lines".

[Tom Kunich]

But YOU said thtqa you had to iknow about Hazloc to design medical equipmwent you stupid ass. Roll another tuird down your throat and tell us how ultasound or respiratory gas analysis or PCR falls into that category. Monkeyman loses yet again. I know, tell is how you designed a PC board of digital circutry and programmed it when you could make heads or tails of a short simple program written in the worl's most commonly used embedded programming language. With -[people like you working for them there's no chance at all that that company will stay in business.

[zen cycle]

First off, try to figure out a spell checker. What you've written below
is borderline gibberish

> But YOU said thtqa you had to iknow about Hazloc to design medical equipmwent you stupid ass.

Please point to any post I've ever made where I claimed one had to
understand HazLoc to design medical equipment. At no point have I
inferred, insinuated, suggested, or made any connection between HazLoc
requirements and medical products except that the regulatory challenges

are similar - which is why we know you were never involved in the actual
design of medical products or you would have been aware of the
challenges instead of saying "I seldom dealt with regulatory issues".

> Roll another tuird down your throat and tell us how ultasound or respiratory gas analysis or PCR falls into that category. Monkeyman loses yet again.

You'd have to have proven something in order for that to happen. You
haven't, in fact you simply embarrassed yourself further with another
ridiculous claim of what you _wish_ I wrote, versus what I _did_ write.

I know, tell is how you designed a PC board of digital circutry and
programmed it when you could make heads or tails of a short simple
program written in the worl's most commonly used embedded programming
language.

No matter how many times you tell that lie, it will never become true

> With -[people like you working for them there's no chance at all that that company will stay in business.

We were established in 1936, last FY we met all stretch goals. Try
again, silly little man.

[Jeff Liebermann]

I wrote "In many ways, standards are a good thing" which means that
there are some things wrong with standards. The big ones are they
obstruct progress and discourage innovation. Because a standard
represents the current state of the art, any improvements must come in
the form of either a major update to the standard or a wholesale
replacement with a new standard. The reason I wrote "Standards grow
like weeds" is because in order to progress forward, standards must
either grow or be replaced by something better. Progress through
never ending change.

Despite all this, I believe that standards solve more problems than
they create. At least that's the present situation. However, if the
proliferation of standards continue to expand at its present rate, we
will soon be buried in a mountain of paperwork and an inundation of
conflicting and incomprehensible standards. Having the rope lay cable
standard rise up from the depths of bureaucracy is a minor example.

Enough for tonite.

[John B.]

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 21:55:31 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Try living in a country where there no standards... Lets see... 220
AC... now which is the hot wire???


--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

With US household current (110~120 vac 60Hz) it's simple to
brush the wire end(s) with a fingertip. I've had a near
death experience with 220v current so now I don't work with
that system at all. Once was plenty.

[zen cycle]

um...yeah. I'll trust your advice on the subject of bicycles and
mechanical design engineering issues. Let's just say I disagree with
that suggestion, rather vehemently.

[Lou Holtman]

For the same power you need twice the current with your 110 V system. Or with the same diameter wires you can get twice the power with a 220\240 V system. Try to charge an EV with just a 110 V system. Never a good idea to brush the wires with any system btw.


Lou

[AMuzi]

Well, now I have a test lamp for that.

I'm not suggesting anyone else touch a live wire but there's
a world of difference between 110 and 220. (maybe even
between this one and the next in some cases)

[John B.]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024 06:47:35 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately in some countries there is no 110 :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:55:57 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And there was a time when some sections of Jakarta was 110 and other
neighborhoods were 220 :-)
2-1 transformer were a hot item in those days :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:08:53 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>And there was a time when some sections of Jakarta was 110 and other
>neighborhoods were 220 :-)
> 2-1 transformer were a hot item in those days :-)

You might enjoy Japan, where different parts of the country are either
50 or 60 Hz.
<https://twitter.com/Xy5Z89/status/1395521366598864897>
The comments include quite a bit on how they ended up with that
situation. I'm told that it's not much of a problem as most devices
and appliances will work properly on either 50 or 60 Hz. However,
those with rotating motors, machinery or clocks need to be on the
correct frequency. Japan also standardized 100 volts using a
non-polarized 2 prong plug and an odd protective grounding system,
which creates additional problems:
<https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2225.html>

[John B.]

On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 09:42:21 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:08:53 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>And there was a time when some sections of Jakarta was 110 and other
>>neighborhoods were 220 :-)
>> 2-1 transformer were a hot item in those days :-)
>
>You might enjoy Japan, where different parts of the country are either
>50 or 60 Hz.
><https://twitter.com/Xy5Z89/status/1395521366598864897>
>The comments include quite a bit on how they ended up with that
>situation. I'm told that it's not much of a problem as most devices
>and appliances will work properly on either 50 or 60 Hz. However,
>those with rotating motors, machinery or clocks need to be on the
>correct frequency. Japan also standardized 100 volts using a
>non-polarized 2 prong plug and an odd protective grounding system,
>which creates additional problems:
><https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2225.html>

I lived in Japan for 8 years mostly on military bases but some of the
time "in town" and while I don't know what power was used "on base"
certainly U.S. stuff purchased in the "Base Exchange" like electric
shavers worked both on base and in town.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/6/2024 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Well, at least you didn't lick the wire. But don't you own a multimeter?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

I do now! Several, including one I soldered myself from a
kit fifty years ago.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:52:03 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/6/2024 5:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> Well, at least you didn't lick the wire. But don't you own a
>> multimeter?

>I do now! Several, including one I soldered myself from a
>kit fifty years ago.

1970's would be the era of the Heathkit IM-105.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/155984108422>
I built two of those kits because the taut band meter movement was the
only one that would survive being used on radio towers. It has some
unusual and useful scales, such as 1KV and 5KV (AC and DC). What I
didn't like was that the ohmmeter used an overpriced 15V battery.
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=eveready+504+15+volt+battery>

So, how am I doing using guesswork and clairvoyance?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/7/2024 7:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:52:03 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2024 5:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> Well, at least you didn't lick the wire. But don't you own a
>>> multimeter?
>
>> I do now! Several, including one I soldered myself from a
>> kit fifty years ago.
>
> 1970's would be the era of the Heathkit IM-105.
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/155984108422>
> I built two of those kits because the taut band meter movement was the
> only one that would survive being used on radio towers. It has some
> unusual and useful scales, such as 1KV and 5KV (AC and DC). What I
> didn't like was that the ohmmeter used an overpriced 15V battery.
> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=eveready+504+15+volt+battery>
>
> So, how am I doing using guesswork and clairvoyance?

I had a similar commercial (not Heathkit) meter that was discarded by
the school when a lab upgraded to digital meters. It also had some
oddball battery. After a couple of replacement cycles, I cobbled
together a replacement battery by stacking and shimming lithium cells -
CR 2032s or something similar.

A few years ago I finally tossed that meter, after I got a great buy on
a Fluke 179.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 1/7/2024 6:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:52:03 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/2024 5:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> Well, at least you didn't lick the wire. But don't you own a
>>> multimeter?
>
>> I do now! Several, including one I soldered myself from a
>> kit fifty years ago.
>
> 1970's would be the era of the Heathkit IM-105.
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/155984108422>
> I built two of those kits because the taut band meter movement was the
> only one that would survive being used on radio towers. It has some
> unusual and useful scales, such as 1KV and 5KV (AC and DC). What I
> didn't like was that the ohmmeter used an overpriced 15V battery.
> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=eveready+504+15+volt+battery>
>
> So, how am I doing using guesswork and clairvoyance?
>

I misremembered. It's an Allied Radio Shack analog meter. I
replaced some burned diodes and the battery holder.